Chris: This is such a key issue - Meaning vs. Entertaining. Yes, our students do know the difference and I want to think that they appreciate the "meaning" part of education. Even if it isn't in the moment, this "meaning" that we offer will resonate at a later time, sometimes years later. Thanks for the thoughtful post.
agreed chris. My experience yesterday with the kids in opensim reinforced that feeling again. Yes, it's a cool MUVE, but we wanted them to work and to build something that could be used by others to better understand the culture here on the Island. While the flying around and shoving someone off the cliff did happen, we were able to convince them that that was secondary and, perhaps more importantly, transient.
If our schools mean anything in an era of overabundance of information, then they have to be about leadership, about setting a tone for life.
Chris I wonder if schools shouldn't be more of a work cooperative where students have meaningful jobs and learn from mentors plus life experiences. Isn't the whole concept of school artificial in view of how people live? How do you define meaningful? My son who is a college freshman remarked recently, "Mom, we're doing something real in Environmental Science." I didn't hear that once in HS. What's real is doing a job, having an impact and making a difference in the world.
careful now. there's a fine line between using our schools as a normative institution to instill societal values and infuse them with basic literacies (which, in this case, i don't think we've realized that we need to expand that base of literacies) and turning our schools into workshops. There's only so much 'real' to go around. Granted, it's the most mobilizable workforce in the world, but the real stuff works great when there are only a couple of far sighted teachers doing it, when you've got 3 million teachers, i'm not so sure if our society has the room in it for that.
Chris, I don't think that entertainment and meaningful are mutually exclusive (and I don't think you do either). John Dewey wrote that "To be playful and serious at the same time is possible, and it defines the ideal mental condition." I've written about this here: http://tinyurl.com/2slyw7
So, maybe "meaningful" is the overall goal and "entertainment" is one possible means to that end? In other words, when we employ engaging/meaningful tools and/or activities, we ought to make sure that they tools/activites are not used for the sake of the entertainment. Rather, we ought to make sure that the kids are properly edutained.
Kudos, Chris. I have been blogging related posts since I started reading Postman's book. It is a worthwhile read even if it was written in 2005. This discussion should receive more "airtime".
Thanks.
This was a great post and one I used to support an argument I was having with my husband. I'm holding a teacher's meeting next week and he thinks that I should focus on being entertaining and I keep saying that I need it to be more meaningful over entertaining. I'm not saying that I should make it boring but the focus should be on meaningful. People, whether students or teachers, want to walk away from something that is meaningful to them (it gives value to what they took time to learn).
Amen. Let me illustrate. The morning I arrived at SLA, I walked in the front door, signed a name tag, and a student took pity on me and said she'd help me find where I would need to be for my session. When I caught my breath I introduced myself to her in the stairwell on the way up to your office. I asked her a simple question: you must be happy here to be volunteering your time like this? She said, "I love this school." I didn't ask, but I am certain it is not for gadgetry or love of gimmicks that she does. In the end, a good school is just that -- a school. If it is a school we can attend proudly, one that keeps us in a healthy state of disequilibrium, one that honors our relationships, then -- and only then -- can we say things like, "I love this school."
This put into words something that has been floating around in my brain for a week or so. There is a teacher at our middle school who is exceptionally popular to the extent that all my students (5th graders) know of him. But I'm not sure they really learn from him. Your post made me realize that he is entertaining, but that my goal is meaning. Thank you for helping me sort it out.
I agree with Jon that they don't have to be mutually exclusive. But, your point that entertainment shouldn't be our loftiest goal is an important one.
Chris—
I completely agree with your comments here. I think for a lot of kids, school is the most dreadful part of their life, and that’s an idea that doesn’t sit well with me (or a lot of teachers, I’d imagine). It’s very hard, with all the fast-paced conveniences of modern society to get kids to sit down and really focus in school. I really liked your comment about the difference between teachers who excel at keeping kids amused and those who excel at keeping kids engaged. Those two words, although similar, have very important differences, as you know. Engaged students can be amused and learn at the same time. The question is how can teachers really make that happen? You’re right, we don’t want to sell subjects to the students. I think we just need to figure out how to present the material to a class, but keep it intriguing for every student. Individualized lessons would probably work best, but at this point in time, it seems like that’s an extremely difficult task to accomplish…
This is something that I have been noticing as I pursue a degree in education. I feel like so much of what we do is based on keeping students entertained, rather than engaged and motivated to learn. Schools do need to be a place of expressing the importance of learning and knowledge, not necessarily trying to compete the media of today.
Motivation is hard though, I think that intrinsic motivation is ultimately what will define a student’s effort and success in the classroom. So much pressure is put on teachers to motivate their students to succeed and while I agree with this to some degree, it is up to the student. A student’s success will be measured by the effort and determination that they exhibit. A teacher should be there to foster this, but no amount of encouraging or academic threatening will change a student’s perspective. They must value their education and from that they will begin to change. Schools should be teaching the value of education, but academic responsibility should fall to students.
Chris - Very powerful words - thank you for taking the time to share your perspectives. I remember viewing an address made by the former principal at Mabry Middle School in which he taked about kids finding meaning and making meaning in the process of getting an education. And so much of this goes along with what you have been writing about in your recent post - relationships, creating a structure that supports what we say is our mission, making time for what we say matters most!! I think we also have to remember that in order to create places where kids can make meaning and be reflective learners, we have t believe that it is our job to create that place and that kids - regardless of their exteriors or some of their actions - can all participate in meaninful learning experiences. We also have to be reflective educators who find our jobs to be meaningful!
Chris- Great post. Very thoughtful and exactly what we are attempting to do at our school, but the reform process is a slow one. In a hybrid model like ours where 75% of student work is done online and the rest face-to-face, it is extremely difficult to engage students. We just dont utilize our time well.
Until we can get our entire staff convinced that the face-to-face time we have to interact with students has to be meaningful and engaging, and their online coursework has to be the same, the students' success with their coursework will continue to be dismal.
Chris, you have also articulated here one of Neil Postman's other deep themes: that of schools serving as critical, clear-eyed, independent evaluators of culture. His "Teaching as a Subversive Activity" was written in 1969 but every word pertains today-- particularly his thesis that schools, like Hemingway, need to have a no-fault "bullshit detector."
For more recent reading by Postman "The End of Education" is also excellent-- I might even recommend having a go at that before "Subversive"-- it's a much faster experience. And forgive the pedantics if you've already wolfed these books down. I met Postman before he died, and feel a little bit like I've been personally charged to be a still, small voice reminding people of his wisdom these days.
In a society filled with endless means to entertain our children, it is no wonder that educators wonder how they can compete to capture students' attention. I absolutely agree that trying to mimic that world to win over students is more damaging to their education than anything else. What teachers nowadays need to realize, however, is that they can use today's tools and technology and make learning enjoyable without putting schooling on any level of or association with *entertainment*.
As a future educator, I hope I am able to bring meaning and authenticity to the classroom like you speak of. In one of my teaching strategies class, we are teaching lessons through active learning. The purpose is to make the activity exciting and fun, but my teacher stresses the discussion after the activity as the most important. The discussion is the way we make the fun activity meaningful, and more value should be put on the message of the lesson than its level of entertainment. Although society does not always reward meaning as you say, I agree that is important for education to continue to reward and encourage meaning and purpose. I hope that I will be able to create, in my classroom, a world that involves purpose, open minds, and true learning. We can utilize technology and its tools to teach, while showing students how use them in meaningful ways to adapt and thrive in our changing environment.
Chris, you are completely correct when you say that schools will never be able to keep up with society. It will never be as fun as the entertainment available to students, and in my opinion it shouldn't be. I believe that school should be fun, but it should not be based on fun. Like you said, the focus must be on meaning and authenticity. If teachers can achieve a feeling of meaning and authenticity, many students will be able to look back on their high school years as an enjoyable experience. When I think back to my high school years it is not entertaining teachers that I most enjoyed, but rather the relationships that I established with friends, teachers, and coaches. I will never forget many of the people that I met and the experiences that I had as a student and an athlete, but I can also recognize that high school was a period of tremendous growth.
Every time I read an article I think about myself as a high school student. I first begin to think did I go through this? I mean it was only 2 years ago for me and I am striving to be on the opposite end now so comparing and remember things that I did and did not like about my education is relevant and important I believe for my future as a successful teacher. When you say, “the tools we have at our disposal allow us to amuse ourselves and amuse our kids without getting down to meaningful work,” I remember doing that exact thing for so many periods. We’d have lab day where we would all gather into the lab, grab a computer, get the short activity done and then spend the rest of our time trying to get onto facebook, check e-mail or play games. Completing worksheets as we find the answers on google is too old school. We’ve mastered it. The teacher then would pat him or herself on the back thinking they had created an entertaining day for us working with technology. This was not one bit meaningful to any of the students involved in this superb activity.
As you said, kids know the difference between engaging and entertaining too. I believe that just because we have the tools of technology, using them the correct way is key. Just because we are engaging students with work does not mean that they are at all amused either. Keeping up with the fast-paced world is hard to do but its important to try from my perspective. I agree though as well that trying to keep up with the entertaining aspects of programs that are now available is hard. Incorporating both meaningful exercises involving technology is a challenge but being authentic is one of the most important aspects of our future as teachers. In my opinion students would rather do things that are meaningful because it makes them entertaining at the same time.
Chris,
You make an excellent point when you say that there is a difference between keeping kids amused and keeping them engaged. Just the other day, my friend was talking about teaching a lesson, and he commented that when he's tried to make the topic fun in past lessons, the kids often end up learning less. I think it's really hard to find the proper balance between getting kids interested and engaged without straying away from the educational aspects. But that is exactly what teachers need to do in order to best heighten children's education.
Chris,
I agree whole-heartedly that, "School can offer a path to meaning, authentic learning, and a reflective and contemplative space where kids have the time and tools to make better choices" (Lehmann). However, recognizing this truth and actually making it happen are two very different acts. Though this is a brilliant theoretical perspective of learning, it also provides no solutions. It neither promotes the implementation of what might interest students nor identifies specifically we are doing that is ineffective. How then do we make schools places of meaning? Is it not the dream of teachers that students accept the offer that education provides? We need to accept that some students are just not cut out for the 9+ year committment that is education. My friend's younger sibling is a Junior in high school, probably the most restless of phases and he simply wants to graduate and get out. With this not so distant dream nearing he seems to have lost all interest in school and what it has to "offer" him. I'll never forget a few weeks back when he was retelling a story about the "stupid detention" he recieved. In response to his punishment, he said to his teacher, "You're just mad because I only have a year left till I'm out and you're stuck here forever!" I could have choked when he said this, but it hit me, some kids simply do not care. They would much rather be off doing the things that "entertain" them. On this note, I do think that it's important to impliment our culture in with our lessons. If school is going to be the place where students are kept away from distracting decisions like drugs and such We must make them want to be there. Games, innovative technology, and films all have the possibility of stirring up something that is meaningful to the class on an educational level. Remember, there will never be that universal lesson to keep everyone on their toes, but we can try, one at a time to try new things.
First of all, I would like to agree with you that there is a difference between entertaining kids and engaging them, and that educators need to be doing the second rather than the first. In order for anything we try to teach to become learned by the modern student, they need to be involved. Almost from the moment they are born, today’s learners are exposed and almost raised by technology. To me, it would seem almost impossible to teach to these modern students without being engaging. I would like to believe that students would appreciate deeper meanings, purpose and authenticity, but it seems as if the modern student is more concerned with the outside than the inside. I think that an entertaining, engaging and educational situation would help these students the most. Today’s students cannot be taught the way students have been taught in the past. I’m not saying that we, as educators, become shallow but that we adapt to this fast paced world.